| Trein ongeluk |
|---|
Dr. Ramon
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- 03-11-2002 00:47 |
Zal ik jullie eens een saaie anekdote vertellen?
Nee?
Jammer, ik doe het toch.
Zaterdag 2 november, vertrok ik met de trein van 12:18 vanaf het station in Groningen, richting Zwolle. Het was de bedoeling dat we om 13:15 bij Zwolle zouden aankomen. Na een minuut of 10, we waren ergens tussen Assen en Haren, minderde de trein opeens vaart, om daarna volledig tot stilstand te komen. Nou gebeurt zoiets wel vaker, als er bijvoorbeeld een wissel omgezet moet worden, maar nu duurde het wel erg lang. Op een gegeven moment begon de conducteur te spreken door de luidsprekers, en hoorden we een helicopter aankomen. Toen we uit het raampje keken, zagen we de traumaheli naar de achterkant van de trein vliegen. De conducteur vertelde dat iemand - terwijl de spoorbomen gesloten waren! - toch de overgang was overgestoken. En helaas voor diegene, kwam daar net onze trein aan. Wij hadden echter niets gemerkt, geen bobbel ofzo plotseling op het spoor. Het treinverkeer werd uiteraard stilgelegd, en vervolgens begon het lange wachten. Na een tijdje hoorden we wel dat de ongelukkige het overleefd had. Maar blijkbaar mag je niet zomaar vertrekken als er een ongeluk is gebeurd, we moesten namelijk eerst wachten op toestemming van NS Reizigers en de KLPD. Uiteindelijk kwam ik anderhalf uur later dan gepland aan in Enschede. Zo maak je nog eens wat mee! Vreemd genoeg kwam dit ongeluk nergens in het nieuws. Treinongelukken bij spoorwegovergangen zijn blijkbaar alleen interessant als er doden vallen. |
Laurens
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- 03-11-2002 09:19 |
Zulke ongelukken gebeuren we vaker, dus het is alleen nieuws als het meerdere mensen betreft en/of kinderen...
Maar goed, als ik Georg mag citeren: "Je maakt maar 1 treinongeluk in je leven mee, en ik (jij) heb die van mij alvast gehad." (bron: the Dice Guys).
Dus, het is maar even dat je het weet! |
Frode
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- 03-11-2002 10:53 |
| Mijn zus zat ook een keer in een trein toen er iemand op het spoor was gaan liggen. Die heeft het niet overleeft. |
Bjørn
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- 03-11-2002 10:58 |
| 1,5 uur vertraging is geloof ik goed voor een vergoeding, moet je maar even navragen en een envelopje ophalen bij de NS. |
Georg
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- 03-11-2002 11:54 |
| Bjorn, wat ongepast. Def praat net over iemand die op het spoor was gaan liggen en jij zegt dat 1.5 uur vertraging goed voor een vergoeding is. |
Ikwileennieuwenaam
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- 03-11-2002 12:44 |
| Wat gepast van je, Bjørn. |
Laurens
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- 03-11-2002 13:15 |
Hoezo ongepast? Ik ben het eens met Bjorn: als iemand weer zo idioot is om niet te wachten als de spoorbomen dicht zijn, dan ga ik er echt niet mee zitten als die persoon wordt aangereden! Eigen stomme rotschuld... Zelfde verhaal met van die idioten in die Golfjes die keihard scheuren met van die house muziek aan: als ze zich weer eens te pletter rijden, zit ik er echt niet mee. Het is alleen sneu voor de nabestaanden en in dit geval voor de machinist van de trein.
Gewoon een vergoeding aanvragen Ramon! |
Dr. Ramon
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- 03-11-2002 13:42 |
| Wat een wijze woorden allemaal weer. Ik herkende het citaat inderdaad (Ken je klassiekers!). Op zich vonden de conducteurs een vergoeding niet zo ongepast, ze riepen namelijk zelf om dat we zo'n envelop konden opvragen bij het loket. En ze waren zelfs zo vriendelijk om het nummer van de trein erbij te noemen: 544. Niet dat ik daar achteraf veel aan heb gehad, want dat hele nummer hoefde je natuurlijk nergens in te vullen. Maar goed, de conducteurs riepen wel meer zinloze dingen om via de luidsprekers, zoals de oproep aan de Alberon catering juffrouw om een kopje koffie naar voren te brengen (die machinist zal natuurlijk flink de schrik te pakken hebben gekregen). |
Laurens
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- 03-11-2002 13:52 |
| Kregen jullie niet eens een gratiz bakje koffie voor de schrik? Schandalig! |
Dr. Ramon
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- 03-11-2002 13:53 |
| Nee, toen de Alberon catering weer door de trein liep, moest iedereen alles gewoon zelf betalen. |
Laurens
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- 03-11-2002 13:58 |
| Schandalig... Hebben ze nou geen enkel respect voor de passagiers? |
No name
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- 04-11-2002 09:17 |
| Ik heb een keer een bommelding meegemaakt in een parijse metro. |
Dr. Ramon
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- 04-11-2002 11:36 |
| Whow, cool! Was het ook een echte bom? |
No name
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- 04-11-2002 11:56 |
Nee...
Maar een of andere neger waarmee ik stond te praten wist mij te vertellen dat het een "atomic bomb" moest zijn. (Het was al de 5e melding die week). Hij was er vrij laconiek over. |
Dr. Ramon
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- 04-11-2002 13:18 |
Een 'atomic bomb' ... Jaja. Overigens is "neger" niet echt politiek correct natuurlijk. Zeg dan: Buitenlander van Afr(o-Amer)ikaanse afkomst. Maar ja, je hebt ook al op de LPF gestemd, dus misschien viel dergelijke terminologie van jou wel te verwachten.
Op http://nu.nl/news.jsp?n=73743&c=10 is overigens een triest vervolg op de serie treinongelukken die de laatste tijd steeds vaker lijken voor te komen, te lezen. Ditmaal met dodelijke afloop, en het betrof een kind :-( |
Ikwileennieuwenaam
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- 04-11-2002 16:34 |
| Vertraging veroorzaakt door een doodgereden kind is geloof ik goed voor een vergoeding, moet je maar even navragen bij de NS. |
Dr. Ramon
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- 04-11-2002 16:36 |
| Hard, maar waar, Edwin. Toch vind ik dat je hier minder makkelijk een grap over kunt maken, omdat het nu een zeer jong iemand betrof, en het ongeluk nu een dodelijke afloop had. |
Laurens
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- 04-11-2002 18:06 |
(...) Omdat de trein die ze moesten halen al klaar stond, kroop de jongen onder de spoorbomen door om op tijd terug te zijn. (...)
Eigen schuld, dikke bult. Stomme sukkel... Die spoorbomen zijn er niet voor niets hoor! |
Ikwileennieuwenaam
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- 04-11-2002 19:35 |
| Tsja Ramon.. Als iemand weer zo idioot is om niet te wachten als de spoorbomen dicht zijn, dan ga ik er echt niet mee zitten als die persoon wordt aangereden! Eigen stomme rotschuld... |
Dr. Ramon
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- 04-11-2002 20:28 |
| Nou, ik vind het toch triest, ondanks dat het zijn eigen schuld was. Het blijft nog steeds een jong persoon, en het is buitengewoon jammer als zo iemand onder druk, waardoor hij meer risico nam, toch zoiets overkomt. |
Bjørn
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- 04-11-2002 21:10 |
| Het is buitengewoon triest, maar ook vooral voor al die mensen die in die trein zinnen die nu te laat komen! Ook triest voor de NS omdat ze weer een hele berg vergoedingen moeten gaan verwerken. En triest voor de ouders, want blijkbaar hadden ze hun zoontje daar niet goed genoeg over voorgelicht. Door en door triest. |
Frode
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- 04-11-2002 21:23 |
http://nu.nl/news.jsp?n=73053&c=20
Gelukkig gaat het toenemend aantal doden gepaard met een 6-ling. Misschien zit er wel een reïncarnatie tussen... Ofzo. |
Laurens
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- 05-11-2002 07:23 |
| Dat zei ik ook al: triest voor de nabestaanden, niet voor de persoon zelf. |
Dr. Ramon
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- 05-11-2002 08:19 |
| Nou, het is ook triest voor de persoon zelf. Die was immers nog maar 13, en had nog een heel leven voor zich, dat dan plotseling zomaar wordt weggenomen. |
Laurens
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 05-11-2002 16:23 |
| Dan had hij maar moeten wachten totdat de spoorbomen weer omhoog waren. |
Ikwileennieuwenaam
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 05-11-2002 19:38 |
| Inderdaad! Wat een sukkel! Ha! Net goed... |
Laurens
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 06-11-2002 07:33 |
| Inderdaad! Het is een harde wereld, en ik kan niet het leed van alle andere mensen op mij nemen. |
Georg
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 06-11-2002 10:30 |
| Zo redeneer ik ook altijd maar. |
Bjørn
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
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- 06-11-2002 12:31 |
| Ach ja, zelf leg je op een gegeven moment ook het loodje. Ik vind dat wel triest voor mij, maar vraag ik iemand dat leed met mij te delen? Dacht het niet. |
Ikwileennieuwenaam
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- 06-11-2002 13:48 |
En zo is het! Ha! We zullen er dan ook geen traan om laten. Bjørn!
Het is toch wel duidelijk dat ik sarcastisch ben? |
Georg
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- 06-11-2002 15:37 |
| Ik vind dat Bjorn wel gelijk heeft. Zolang het voor mij mogelijk is me van ellende elders niets aan te trekken is dat mooi meegenomen. |
Sascha
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- 06-11-2002 18:02 |
Ach, ik vind het wel jammer.
Natuurlijk is het zijn eigen domme schuld en misschien is de wereld wel beter af wanneer alle domme mensen door treinen worden doodgereden, maar tegelijk hebben we wel een (eventuele) belastingbetaler minder, waardoor de gevolgen misschien wel door heel Nederland merkbaar zouden kunnen zijn... |
Laurens
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- 06-11-2002 20:22 |
| Wie zegt dat het een belastingbetaler is? De persoon in kwestie was iets van 11 a 12 jaar, dus het scheelt ons alleen maar kinderbelasting! :p |
Frode
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 06-11-2002 20:32 |
>en had nog een heel leven voor zich
Niet dus, hij werd geschept.
Je weet nooit hoeveel level je nog voor je hebt totdat het afgelopen is... Dan heb je geen leven meer voor, slechts de dood.
Jipes wat ben ik poëtisch. |
Dr. Ramon
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- 06-11-2002 23:24 |
Ik vind nog steeds dat jullie toch wel hard zijn. Een beetje empathie is blijkbaar teveel gevraagd. Natuurlijk weet ik wel dat er veel meer, en veel erger leed voorkomt in de wereld, maar leed vergelijken is niet mogelijk omdat elk leed op zichzelf staat.
DLL, en daarbij aansluitend Georg: Je overdrijft. Ik vraag je helemaal niet het leed van de hele wereld op je te nemen. Ik zeg alleen dat ik het een harde reactie vind.
Bjørn: Niemand beweert dat jij anderen vraagt om om jou te rouwen als je komt te overlijden. Je weet echter zelf ook wel, dat dit heus zal gebeuren, zoals Edwin al duidelijk aantoont.
DLL: Sascha bedoelde natuurlijk dat het kind later wel een belastingbetaler zou worden.
Def: Ik bedoelde uiteraard, dat hij net zoals ieder van de DGE leden nog een heel leven voor zich had, maar dat dit leven hem door een speling van het lot werd ontnomen. Overigens geloof ik niet in lotsbestemming en dingen die voorbestemd zijn, alleen in toeval. Zoals een speling van het lot toeval is. |
Laurens
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
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- 07-11-2002 07:25 |
| Amen. |
Dr. Ramon
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- 07-11-2002 08:49 |
Tjonge, DLL is het eens een keer volmondig eens met de kritiek die ik op hem heb geleverd. Dat ik dat nog eens mag meemaken.
---
Dit wordt dan toch zeker één van de memorabele dagen uit mijn leven |
Bjørn
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
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- 08-11-2002 23:06 |
Ramon: Ik heb helemaal niet beweerd dat anderen beweren dat ik anderen vraag of ze om mij rouwen als ik kom te overleiden. Ik heb het trouwens helemaal niet gehad over mijn daadwerkelijk overleiden, maar gewoon over het feit dat ik GA overleiden en het trieste van dat feit. DIE triestheid hoeven jullie niet met mij te delen, hoewel ik het natuurlijk zeer op prijs zou stellen als jullie toch enigszins om mij zouden rouwen al is het alleen maar om mij een goed gevoel te geven voor zolang ik nog niet dood ben.
---
Als niemand het jammer zou vinden dat je dood gaat, wat is je leven dan waard? |
Frode
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 08-11-2002 23:34 |
Doet me denken aan Futurama... Die eene aflevering waarin Bender bang is dat hij vergeten wordt.
---
Als het leven niks waard is... Waarom leef je dan? Misschien is de dood wel veel beter! |
Ikwileennieuwenaam
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
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- 08-11-2002 23:42 |
| Ik vind het nu wel een hele ingewikkelde discussie worden... |
Laurens
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 09-11-2002 08:52 |
| Ja inderdaad.... |
Dr. Ramon
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 09-11-2002 12:14 |
Ingewikkeld...? Nee hoor. Mummies zijn ingewikkeld.
Bjørn, ik heb geenszins beweerd dat jij hebt beweerd dat anderen beweerd zouden hebben dat jij anderen zou vragen om om jou te rouwen als je te overlijden komt (met een lange IJ!). Dat zei ik ook juist: "Niemand beweert dat jij anderen vraagt...", dus dat je de zaak vervolgens probeert om te draaien valt me een beetje van je tegen.
Dat mensen allemaal gaan sterven aan het eind van hun leven is een eigenschap die intrinsiek is aan het menselijk leven, en in mijn opinie moet je daar niet om gaan rouwen. Rouwen als iemand daadwerkelijk te komt overlijden is al meer dan genoeg. Als je ook nog eens zou gaan rouwen om het feit dat we allemaal eens een keer het tijdelijke voor het eeuwige zouden verwisselen, dan word je wel een grenzeloze pessimist, en kun je nooit lol meer beleven in je leven. |
Laurens
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- 09-11-2002 12:51 |
(met een lange IJ!)
Ik wou het niet zeggen, maar ik stoorde me er wel aan. |
Dr. Ramon
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Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 09-11-2002 13:01 |
| Kijk, het valt zelfs DLL al op! Dan is het toch wel een héél ernstige spelfout. |
Laurens
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 09-11-2002 13:03 |
| Ha....ha...h....ha..... |
Dr. Ramon
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 09-11-2002 18:04 |
| Het was geeneens een grap! Het was juist uiterst serieus! |
Laurens
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 09-11-2002 18:06 |
| Ha...h....ha...ha....h..hh.... |
Frode
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 09-11-2002 18:11 |
Het wordt inderdaad wat ingewikkeld... Praten over de dood is volgens mij net zo iets als praten over tijdreizen.
Zullen we praten over tijdreizen? |
Laurens
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
Warning: strftime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
- 09-11-2002 18:20 |
| Nee. |
Bjørn
Warning: strtotime(): It is not safe to rely on the system's timezone settings. You are *required* to use the date.timezone setting or the date_default_timezone_set() function. In case you used any of those methods and you are still getting this warning, you most likely misspelled the timezone identifier. We selected the timezone 'UTC' for now, but please set date.timezone to select your timezone. in /var/www/html/includes/functions.php on line 24
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- 09-11-2002 19:37 |
Ramon, het feit dat jij mij vertelde "Niemand beweert dat jij anderen vraagt...", suggereerde dat ik had beweerd dat er WEL mensen waren die dat beweerden. En dat wou ik even weerleggen.
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Kom ik er met een Jantje van Leiden vanaf? |
No name
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- 10-11-2002 10:14 |
"Overigens is "neger" niet echt politiek correct natuurlijk. Zeg dan: Buitenlander van Afr(o-Amer)ikaanse afkomst. Maar ja, je hebt ook al op de LPF gestemd, dus misschien viel dergelijke terminologie van jou wel te verwachten."
Hey Ramon, waarom vind jij neger een beledigend woord? Wat moet ik dan zeggen? Ten eerste weet ik niet zeker of het een buitenlander was, misschien was hij wel in Frankrijk geboren. Dus "Buitenlander van Afr(o-Amer)ikaanse afkomst" valt al af. En om nou met "Inlander van Afr(o-ameri)ikaanse afgrond" te beginnen zie ik ook niet zo zitten. Misschien is neger niet het goede woord, maar hoe moet je iemand dan omschrijven met een donkere huidskleur zonder in té politiek correct te vervallen?
Oh ja. De link naar LPF is wat flauw hè? Want iedereen weet dat PF en de LPF niet tegen buitenlanders zijn, maar tegen het beleid waarmee nederlanders er in de afgelopen jaren mee omgingen. |
Dr. Ramon
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- 10-11-2002 12:48 |
Bjørn: Okee, er was dus een klein misverstand qua interpretatie. Nu begrijpen we elkaar weer. En je komt er inderdaad met een Jantje van Leiden vanaf! Waar zou dat spreekwoord eigenlijk vandaan komen? Heeft iemand hier een etymologisch woordenboek?
Scylla: Je zou ook kunnen zeggen: "iemand met een donkere huidskleur", hoewel - dat geef ik toe - dat iets minder specifiek de tint van die huidskleur aangeeft. Het gebruik van het woord 'buitenlander' in mijn omschrijving was nogal ongelukkig, inderdaad. Je zou buiten-/inlander ook kunnen vervangen door 'iemand'. Hebben we de eerste hindernis al weer genomen. Andere, in mijn ogen politiek correctere, termen zouden kunnen zijn: "iemand van het negroïde ras", of "iemand met een negroïde uiterlijk". Al met al genoeg alternatieven, zo blijkt. En wat is er mis met in té politiek correct woordgebruik te vervallen? Was het niet de LPF die pleitte voor herinvoer van normen en waarden? Ik vind dat politiek correct woordgebruik daar ook onder valt. Uiteraard moet het niet in die mate worden doorgevoerd dat er op een gegeven moment taboes op zaken lijken te gaan rusten en niemand de zaken meer bij hun namen durft te noemen, maar ik vind dat er niets mis is met een beetje politiek correct taalgebruik.
Inderdaad was de link naar de LPF een beetje flauw. Die trek ik terug. Ik dacht even makkelijk te kunnen scoren door de generaliserende link tussen de politieke rechtse kant van de LPF en de daarmee makkelijk geassocieerde afkeer van buitenlanders te maken. En toegegeven: Je zou eerder denken dat mijn eigen PvdA tegen buitenlanders is (Rob Oudkerk: "k*tmarokkanen"), maar het beleid van (jouw bijna voornaam-genoot) Nawijn lijkt toch ook niet echt vriendelijk te zijn voor buitenlanders. |
Laurens
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- 10-11-2002 12:50 |
| Ik vind dat het woord 'neger' gewoon gebruikt mag worden. Net zoals kaaskop, kuthollander, rotmof, fuckfransoos, vuile LPFkiezer, en kutmarokkaan. |
No name
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- 10-11-2002 13:42 |
Daar ben ik het ook mee eens DLL. Vrijheid van meningsuiting boven alles, maar wel zonder dat je aanzet tot haat/geweld. Iedereen moet voor zichzelf bedenken welke woorden wel en niet aanzetten tot haat/geweld. De context is hierbij belangrijk. Als ik zeg "Ik kwam een neger op straat tegen" vind ik dat niet erg. Maar als ik zeg "Alle negers moeten dood" dan kan het niet door de beugel. Ik vind in principe dat je elk woord mag gebruiken maar NIET in elke context.
Wat de afgelopen jaren veel is gebeurd is dat je NIET alles mocht zeggen volgens de toen geldende normen, terwijl niet alle uitspraken discriminerend waren bedoeld, werden ze wel zo uitgelegd. Sommige woorden/onderwerpen zijn per definitie "fout" geworden, zonder dat men naar de context kijkt.
Wat Oudkerk zei kan in principe ook door de beugel vind ik. Hij had het over een groep marokkanen die rotzooi schopte in de stad. Die noemde hij Kutmarokkanen. Tegenover mensen van Nederlandse afkomst, die rotzooi schoppen in de stad, zeg je ook "wat een kutlui". De meeste mensen zeggen niet "wat een kutnederlanders", maar dat bedoelen ze eigenlijk wel.
(Ik heb in het verleden met PF, het Oudkerk-argument vaak gebruikt om aan te geven dat anderen veel ergere dingen zeggen, maar dat was natuurlijk in de context van die discussie. In principe heb ik altijd gevonden dat Oudkerk die uitspraken best mocht doen, alleen om dat hij van de PVDA was kwam het mij goed uit om hem daarop toen aan te vallen.)
En wat betreft mijn naamgenoot: maatregelen tegen de komst van nieuwe nederlanders zijn niet discriminerend tegen die mensen. Ok, ze zullen het niet leuk vinden, maar gooi het niet op de wat-zijn-we-zielig-want-we-worden-gediscrimineerd-omdat-we-buitenlanders-zijn-toer. Het gaat niet om het feit dat ze buitenlanders zijn, maar om het feit dat wij in Nederland dat niet allemaal kunnen regelen, zoals dat eigenlijk zou moeten.
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Les van Herman Finkers: "waarom zou ik jou niet discrimineren en een ander wel?". |
Dr. Ramon
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- 10-11-2002 16:01 |
Ik denk dat er inderdaad wel wat voor is te zeggen, om de context waarin bepaalde woorden voorkomen, bepalend te laten zijn. Zo staakten de CD-inpakkers voor de Raymzter CD eerst, omdat ze dachten dat het een racistische CD betrof. Dit bleek niet zo te zijn, en toen konden ze weer opgelucht aan het werk. En inderdaad zijn sommige onderwerpen de afgelopen jaren taboe geworden, waardoor de voedingsbodem voor een onderhuids ongenoegen groeide, waar iemand als Pim Fortuyn zijn voordeel mee kon doen. Dat is jammer, en deze onderwerpen zijn na de 'revolutie' die Fortuyn veroorzaakte, ook opengebroken. Waarschijnlijk is dat toch een betere situatie, omdat je nu fatsoenlijk kunt zeggen waar het op staat, elkaar recht in de ogen kunt kijken, en weet waar je aan toe bent met de ander.
Ik denk dat het kwalijke aan het woord 'kutmarokkanen' juist is dat specifiek een bepaalde bevolkingsgroep lijkt te worden gegeneraliseerd. En dat is natuurlijk de angst van iedere linkse Nederlander, omdat de eerste grondwet daarmee afbreuk gedaan lijkt te worden, namelijk dat er niet gediscrimineerd mag worden. Bovendien wordt er met de aanduiding van een specifieke bevolkingsgroep een gevoel van 'wij' en 'zij' gecreëerd, dat het makkelijker maakt een dergelijke groep te generaliseren. Als je zegt 'wat een kutnederlanders', creëer je eenzelfde situatie van 'wij' en 'zij', omdat je jezelf of jouw groep dan bewust tegenover de groep van de Nederlanders zet. Daarom zegt niemand het ook, omdat men weet dat hij of zij zelf een Nederlander is, en daarmee ook alle kwalijke eigenschappen van de mensen van Nederlandse afkomst (heerlijk politiek correct, chapeau!) die rotzooi schoppen in de stad op zichzelf betrekt. Daarom pleit ik ervoor om de negatieve benoeming van een bepaalde bevolkingsgroep niet te gebruiken (En nee, 'voorbibs berbers' lijkt mij ook niet geschikt :-)), maar alle kutlui gewoon kutlui te noemen.
Ik heb geenszins beweerd dat Nawijn discrimineerde. Integendeel, iederéén die uit het buitenland komt, ongeacht geloof, geslacht, ras, politieke voorkeur, wordt geweerd - niemand wordt gediscrimineerd! Wat mooi in overeenstemming met de eerste grondwet ;-)
Wat ik bedoelde was dat het vreemd is dat er een dergelijke ongelijke verdeling van rijkdom en (politieke) vrijheid is op de wereld, en dat die landen die er een beetje meer van hebben toch nog zo moeilijk over doen om de mensen afkomstig uit landen die er minder van hebben er in mee te laten delen. Dat klinkt misschien communistisch, maar zeg nu zelf - is het niet egoïstisch om al je rijkdom voor jezelf te houden, terwijl je weet dat er mensen zijn die het alleen maar door gebrek aan kansen en vrijheid moeilijker dan jij hebben?
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Kijk, dat is nog eens een wijze les :-) |
Laurens
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- 10-11-2002 16:47 |
Laten we wel wezen: er zijn wel degelijk kutmarokkanen. Die tering lui die geen fuck uitvoeren, en omdat de Nederlandsche politie niets mag, ook nog eens vet crimineel zijn. En ik hekel aan die kutmarokkanen. En als ik daarmee een "'wij' en 'zij'" situatie creeer, heb ik daar vet schijt aan.
Ik ben schijtziek van dat 'aardige' en 'politiekcorrecte' gedoe. Mijn oude tante durft in Rotterdam sommige buurten niet meer in omdat daar zo'n stelletje klote Marokkanen en Bulgaren de boel terroriseren. Schoonvegen die zooi.
Don't get me wrong, ik heb niets tegen immigranten/asielzoekers/buitenlanders. Het zijn verschrikkelijk aardige mensen, maar het moet wel gezegd kunnen worden dat er ook een stelletje kut<vul maar in> zijn, en dat dat stelletje tering<idem> gewoon zonder pardon het land uitgemieterd moet kunnen worden.
Lekker rechts, maar het moet wel kunnen. |
Ikwileennieuwenaam
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- 10-11-2002 17:47 |
Huppakee Laurens! Klare taal! Maar is het mogelijk om die mensen het land uit te zetten? Dan moeten ze toch wel een andere nationaliteit dan de Nederlandse moeten hebben.... Er moeten toch andere oplossingen zijn voor dit probleem.
Ik zou zeggen: geef die Marokkanen een lekker glaasje champagne en eh, nou ja. |
Bjørn
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- 10-11-2002 18:22 |
Laurens: Ik vind dat het woord 'neger' gewoon gebruikt mag worden. Net zoals kaaskop, kuthollander, rotmof, fuckfransoos, vuile LPFkiezer, en kutmarokkaan.
LOL |
No name
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- 11-11-2002 00:09 |
| Vraagje DLL, je tante heeft op LR gestemd? |
Laurens
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- 11-11-2002 07:13 |
| Yep. Op PF. |
No name
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- 11-11-2002 12:16 |
| ik hou van je tante |
Laurens
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- 11-11-2002 15:08 |
| Tja. Dat je op PF stemde vind ik prima, net zoals je op de LPF zou stemmen als PF nog zou leven. Dat je alleen stemt op een dooie, en/of op een partij zonder leider vind ik onbegrijpelijk... Dus... |
Ikwileennieuwenaam
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- 11-11-2002 19:33 |
| Helemaal mee eens Laurens... En als je een signaal had willen afgeven over paars had je ook op een partij met wat meer ervaring kunnen stemmen. Zoals eh, de SP! |
Frode
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- 11-11-2002 21:39 |
Hillie zei:"Ten eerste weet ik niet zeker of het een buitenlander was, misschien was hij wel in Frankrijk geboren."
Dan is het toch ook een buitenlander?
Volgens mij komt het grootste deel van van de problemen door buitenlanders... Ga maar na: Er leven nu zo'n 6 miljard mensen op de aarde... Denk eens in hoeveel mensen daarvan buitenlander zijn!
Dit zei een zeer wijze Eindhovense caberatier eens. |
Dr. Ramon
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- 11-11-2002 23:18 |
| Scherp, Def! |
Jasper
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- 13-11-2002 18:30 |
http://www.nieuwenationalepartij.org
TOPPIE! |
Dr. Ramon
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- 13-11-2002 19:51 |
| Nou, niet zo toppie lijkt me. Hoewel men claimt niet racistisch, fascistisch of extreem-rechts te zijn, geeft men toch toe dat een kleine 20% van de leden eerder lid was van rechtse partijen (Voor het gemak bestempelt men de verdeling van politieke partijen in links en rechts als 'sterk verouderd'). Het uitgangspunt is het nationalisme, en in de Links sectie staan allemaal (extreem-)rechtse partijen in Europa. |
Georg
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- 13-11-2002 20:10 |
| Ja, dat is wel opvallend. Grappig trouwens, het partijblad heet `Barricade'. Jammer dat bij de veel gestelde vragen alleen maar wordt verteld wat de NNP niet is, maar er komt wel wat van de NNP terug bij uitgangspunten. Verder was het partijprogramma in .DOC-formaat, dus erg professioneel zijn ze niet. |
Laurens
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- 14-11-2002 07:39 |
Wat een sukkels! Dat logo van hun lijkt een beetje op die van de CD (met Nederland in zo'n rondje). Wat een idioten... Een partij van idioten voor idioten...
Wie gaat daar nou weer op stemmen dan? Waar moet dit land heen... Is men echt nou zo dom hier....
Ik stem nog liever op de partij van de toekomst!
EDIT: Dit mailtje stuurde ik naar hun site:
Het beginselprogramma dat op de site staat is in Microsoft doc-format. Wat zijn jullie nou voor een idioten! Gaan jullie er van uit dat iedereen maar die fucking dure MS Office koopt ofzo? Of werk je samen met Bill Gates?
Er professioneel zijn jullie dus niet. Een beetje partij biedt zijn documenten tenminste aan in pdf.
Laurens
PS: mail me niet terug. |
Georg
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- 14-11-2002 09:45 |
| Hehe, kijken of ze binnenkort ook een .PDF-jes beschikbaar hebben. Ik heb trouwens uit protest mijn logboek van Communicatieve Vaardigheden in een Open-Office formaat opgeslagen en zo naar hun toegestuurd. Daar! Ha! Dat zal ze leren mij te dwingen die vieze .DOC-jes te lezen. |
Dr. Ramon
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- 14-11-2002 12:31 |
| Haha, strakke actie jongens! Nog leuker zou het zijn geweest als jullie ze ook aangevallen hadden op hun 'ínhoud'. |
Georg
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- 14-11-2002 14:31 |
| Ja, inderdaad. Maar zoals je al met je quotes aangeeft, die ontbreekt. |
Dr. Ramon
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- 14-11-2002 14:33 |
| Ja, dat is ook weer zo :-D |
Laurens
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- 14-11-2002 15:20 |
| Zullen ze geschroken zijn van mijn mail? Misschien krijg ik nu de BVD (of hoe ze ook maar heten tegenwoordig) echt achter me aan! |
Ikwileennieuwenaam
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- 14-11-2002 19:39 |
Van die site:
" Midzomer barbecuefeest, groot succes.
Tegen het eind van het feest toen het langzaam begon te schemeren werd symbolisch een klein vuur ontstoken, de oude traditie gebruikelijk bij de viering van de langste dag van het jaar, de zonnewende."
Wat een gore crypto-germaanse SS-fascisten zeg! Kots, kots... |
Laurens
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- 14-11-2002 20:38 |
| <braaaaaak> |
Frode
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- 14-11-2002 22:17 |
| DLL, ik neem aan dat je de BBE bedoelt? De Bijzondere Bijstands Eenheid. |
Ikwileennieuwenaam
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- 27-08-2005 20:46 |
Van www.nnp.nu:
"Reeds langere tijd is de NNP niet meer de partij die het zou moeten zijn. Een pijnlijke doch objectieve constatering. Een klein jaar geleden heeft na intensief intern beraad het bestuur en kader nog geprobeerd om het tij te keren en er weer een stijgende lijn in te brengen. Helaas moeten het nu, 1 jaar na dato, vaststellen dat het niet is gelukt. [...] Daardoor is besloten de NNP te ontbinden."
Laurens hoeft dus niet meer bang voor deze vieze nazi's te zijn! |
Dr. Ramon
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- 28-08-2005 23:16 |
Ah daar is de nieuwe site dus heen! Ik dacht al toen ik de thread opnieuw doorlas en de .org link volgde. Wel knap dat ze zelf hebben ingezien dat ze niet lekker bezig waren.
Wat plaatste ik vroeger lange posts trouwens zeg. Niet normaal meer... |
Frode
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- 29-08-2005 00:46 |
The nazi's followed their leader; ze maakten er zelf maar een eind aan.
Goed bezig :) |
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